Vocabulary Dysphoria

[bcholmes]

Someone on one of the trans lists I read made this claim:

Technically, since I have had the surgery, I am no longer transsexual, as my body now is harmonized (anatomically) with my brain and gender identity.

This was buried in the middle of a lengthy post about proper use of term in the trans community. Feh.

Y'know, I really try to respect other people's labels. I really do. But sometimes... sometimes I think that certain claims are just dumb.

There's an increasingly vocal part of the trans community who have been arguing that the umbrella term "transgendered" is not an appropriate label for transsexauls. And I have great difficulty seeing that viewpoint.

I mean, my definition of transgendered has been this: someone is transgendered if their feelings about their gender put them into conflict with mainstream society's view of gender. By my definition, transsexuals are necessarily transgendered.

I've recently tried to get into the headspace of such "I'm transsexual, not transgendered"-types by likening the discussion to the claim that Canadians are also Americans because this is, after all, North America. (Yeah, I've heard people say that. And no Canadians that I know of are inclined to agree with that statement).

The problem seems to be that the brain perceives a category, and then tries to define it later. Teasing out just what the brain latched on to is a Hard Task.

Comments

[futabachan.livejournal.com]

Technically, since I have had the surgery, I am no longer transsexual, as my body now is harmonized (anatomically) with my brain and gender identity.

By any chance, did this person transition during the 70s or 80s? The "former transsexual" position was extremely common -- pretty much the standard, in fact -- back when I first tried to transition in 1989. Attached to it was an assumption that after SRS, one naturally would go deep stealth, drop out of pre-transition social circles, and never talk about That Awful Problem (tm) any more, 'cause That Brilliant Surgeon fixed it, y'know?

[futabachan.livejournal.com]

I've recently tried to get into the headspace of such "I'm transsexual, not transgendered"-types by likening the discussion to the claim that Canadians are also Americans because this is, after all, North America.

Who is it that's putting forward that argument? Is it transsexuals, or non-transsexual other sorts of trans people?

And would they mind overly much if I smacked them over the head with a Big Foam Cluebat (tm)?

[trinker.livejournal.com]

What's the difference, to those people, between "transsexual" and "transgendered" ?

I've heard people agitating for "UnitedStatesians" or other awkward monikers for "Americans" on the grounds that all people of the Americas should be able to say "Americans" the way that some can say "Europeans".

I don't understand the mapping to trans-terminology, probably because I'm out of date with issues in the trans community.

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

I'll be the first to admit complete cluelessness on this entire issue, and ask for some assistance.

I'm not 100% clear on the definition you provide above. Are there some examples that you could provide that might help? Like, "I feel that ---, society's views are ---." I think an illustration might help.

Also, is there a good definition of transsexual that I could compare to get a better idea of how these two concepts differ?

One thing which I've been confused about lately is this: Suppose one is born with male genitalia, and is raised initially with a male gender identity. Later on in life, this person realizes that neither of these match the reality of the situation for them, and assumes a female gender identity. Down the road, they take medical steps to match their physical body with their gender identity. Does this person identify as transsexual or transgendered, or are they now likely to consider themselves simply female -- a woman? (I'm not talking about the kind of denial that futabachan mentioned in terms of pretending it never happened, or disappearing from the community that they had become a part of, etc. Just the matter of how you see such a person best identifying.)

Sorry if I'm drilling you with questions here; You can ignore any or all if desired.

[bcholmes.livejournal.com]

I'm not 100% clear on the definition you provide above.

I think, for example, that Brandon Teena (of Boys Don't Cry fame) is transgendered because Brandon thought of himself as a man, and people around him thought he was a woman (and a pervert).

I think that Quentin Crisp is transgendered because people think that he doesn't dress or act the way men should, but the way he dresses and acts is right for him.

Also, is there a good definition of transsexual that I could compare to get a better idea of how these two concepts differ?

Transsexualism is a term usually reserved for people who believe that they are born in the wrong body and seek medical treatment (and usually sex-reassignment surgery) to "correct" that.

Some people used to use the term "non-op transsexual" to describe people who would do all the stuff that transsexuals would do, except for sex-reassignment surgery, but I haven't heard the term used in quite some time.

Does this person identify as transsexual or transgendered, or are they now likely to consider themselves simply female -- a woman?

Heh. That's not an 'or' question.

A bit more seriously, I think that different people in that situation put their emphases in different places. Most trans folk that I'm close to who fall in that category tend to call themselves transsexual women.

[epi-lj.livejournal.com]

Thanks! That does help to some degree. At least, knowing that there's some overlap in usage and that it varies from person to person also helps understanding what seemed to be confusing uses and such.

[skylark-10.livejournal.com]

the following is an image of a model i came up with to try to get across these ideas in a seminar i regularly teach to whitman-walker clinic volunteers on trans and bi awareness.



the idea, in very sketchy form, is that "gender variant" refers to anything not conformant with conventional gender-encoded expectations. note that by some light pressing on this viewpoint, gays and lesbians become "gender variant".

"transgendered" then becomes a quality of nonconformant gender identity (internal sense of self), without regard to expression (external presentation). something to bear in mind here is that among heterosexual male crossdressers, the idea that they are "getting in touch with their feminine side" (a distinctly transgendered expression) is quite common. the flip side of course is that not everyone who feels queer acts it.

"transsexual" is a persistent sense of identity not in keeping with one's sex assigned at birth. *often* the sense is so intense that we are compelled to address it physically... but not always. hence the overlap on the expression scale.

obviously an arbitrary and limiting way to put it, but maybe it will help a little.

[otterylexa.livejournal.com]

Your diagram makes my head hurt.

[skylark-10.livejournal.com]

>someone is transgendered if their feelings about their gender put them into conflict with mainstream society's view of gender

the argument that is advanced by the kind of people you're talking about (sometimes self-referred to as WBTs), has 2 critical components:

1) that their *gender* (not their sex) was always internally consistent. thus, while from an uninformed pov it may at first seem that their behaviors are "transgendered", that is only an artifact of context.

2) that "transsexualism" is an identifiable and limitable biological syndrome... literally a "defect" which, once addressed at least on the somatic level, is irrelevant.

the problem is that it's almost impossible to rationally carry out these ideas... they break down in too many places, and their full atriculation violates parsimony. secondarily, their adherents tend to meet challenge or critique of the *thesis* (as opposed to their own identities) with shrill, heavy-handed rhetoric, and in the apparent "fight" to sustain their own identification, almost invariably erase those of many others.

[skylark-10.livejournal.com]

with reference to sue's comment, btw, i should point out that the rift described here has re-emerged in a particularly virulent form among certain portions of the current "younger transitioner" generation, some of whom see "older transitioners" as inherently illegitimate.

it's all victim-based identity politics, which is to say rafts of steaming horseshit.

Re: Vocabulary Dysphoria

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

*nod*. i agree with your definition of transgendered.

but i've run into a considerable number of TSs who do indeed buy wholeheartedly into the binary gender definition of mainstream society, and who therefore no longer consider themselves either transsexual or transgendered after being through with all the surgeries.

i can see the roots of that quite possibly lie in the difficulty to be permitted to transition at all by the medical establishment. i don't actually know in how far that's still a concern, since i stopped interacting with TS communities (it was just too politically charged and i didn't have the energy to keep defending my own "wishy-washy" views of gender).

[lovelyangel.livejournal.com]

Technically, since I have had the surgery, I am no longer transsexual, as my body now is harmonized (anatomically) with my brain and gender identity.

I too have seen that argument, and I think it's sad. Being TS is a huge burden -- but it's also a gift. To distance oneself from the things that make the person special -- that contributed to her very being -- is a denial of self.

I try not to argue with people's self-definitions; they can call themselves what they like. How well accepted they are is another matter.

BC's usage of the terms transgendered and transsexual coincides with my own. I don't understand TSs distancing themselves from the transgender umbrella either.

I guess some of the transsexuals have seceded from the Dominion and forgot to tell us. (^_~)