Four Questions

[bcholmes]

Story 1: A student goes to their local Sosyete and wants to learn how to serve the spirits. At one point, the student is told "After the Priere Ginen, the first song we sing is to Legba. He opens the gates and lets the spirits come into the ceremony."

Student says, "Yeah, that's good and all, but I've always felt more in tune wih Ezuli. I think I'll do my first song to Ezuli."

To which the teacher responds: "No, no, no. You don't get it. The first song should be to Legba. If he takes offence, no spirits will show up."

"Naw," says student, "I'd rather start with Ezuli..."

Question 1: Is there any part of your spiritual practice that's fixed/unchangeable?

Story 2: Someone I know through my annual trans spiritual retreat gets up at 5:30 every morning to call the directions. It's a practice of her own invention, and she believes that it helps her give thanks to the spirits.

Question 2: Are there any regular, repeated practices that are a part of your spiritual path? What are they and what are their purposes?

Story 3: Back in 2002, after returning from my kanzo ceremony in Haiti, I had certain food restrictions for a period of time afterward. The trans spiritual retreat of 2002 fell during the period of food restrictions. One of the things that makes the retreat amazing is the food. Turns out, I couldn't eat most of the food that was served.

Question 3: Are there any parts of your spiritual practice that are inconvenient, and is that okay?

Story 4: I've taken to playing poker recently. After pretty much every game, I reflect on it and try to figure out what I can do to play better. I realized only recently that I never really think of doing any magical workings to improve my game. For some reason, in my head, poker seems to live outside of the space where spirituality applies. I'm not really sure why.

Question 4: Are there boundaries, in your mind, between the part of your life that involves spirituality and the parts that don't? Can you talk about some of the ways that spirituality plays a role in contexts that aren't obviously spiritual?

Comments

[herbmcsidhe.livejournal.com]

Story 1 - the student does not get it...and the teacher is right about the opener of doors.

Question 1 - yes, those parts directly related to my Initiate Paths.

Question 2 - there are some daily devotionals that I do as part of my own Path; I use tthem to help stay focused and connected to the here and now.

Question 3 - At times, yes, and yes, I'm okay with it.

Questino 4 - I'm certain there are, I need to think on it for a bit.

[(Anonymous)]

1. Yes - 10 basic prohibitions.
2. Yes - Listening to podcasts of sermons. Purpose: Education and encouragement.
3. Yes, and Yes. Sometimes I'm afraid to witness for Christ, but that's ok.
4. No - In everything I choose to do, I try to reflect on what the 'right' thing to do would be. Example - When I go to use a public washroom that's dirty, I'll take a wad of toilet paper and clean it as best I can (some are beyond what a wad of T.P. can handle - move along, move along). For me, that's a pure example of 'Love one another'; it's the kind of selfless service that is the true nature of Christianity.


M.

[mr-sharkey.livejournal.com]

Now why wasn't I logged in for that comment. Bother.


M.

[poetheather.livejournal.com]

Great questions and I am still thinking about them. Thank you for the class.

[firecat]

1. There are things I tend to do in certain situations/rituals, and sometimes I tend quite strongly to do them, but I wouldn't say they are fixed/unchangeable in the sense of being promoted by a specific human authority. In your story, the student is asking a person with some spiritual authority how to serve, and in that case if the student then consults her own feelings instead, she isn't really learning what she presumably came to the teacher to learn...if you're going to do stuff through a tradition, then honor the tradition...if you're going to consult your feelings, then do it on your own or find a path that has more room for your feelings. I've only studied spiritual techniques with teachers and haven't gone to them for knowledge of what the spirits want from me. I ask that more directly. So far I have not gotten any information that I need to do fixed/unchangeable rituals.

2. No, although there are certain practices for certain situations. I'm not comfortable sharing the specifics.

3. Again, there have been things I needed to do at specific times that were inconvenient. It was OK at the time for those specific things. But there are no ongoing inconveniences. In general, my spiritual practice hasn't been much focused on discipline.

4. I use the spiritual tools I learned when I have a problem I haven't been able to solve in more direct ways or a problem I have a lot of strong feelings about. I also use certain tools in daily life to become more aware; those tools might apply to any situation.

[abostick59.livejournal.com]

Story 4: I've taken to playing poker recently. After pretty much every game, I reflect on it and try to figure out what I can do to play better. I realized only recently that I never really think of doing any magical workings to improve my game. For some reason, in my head, poker seems to live outside of the space where spirituality applies. I'm not really sure why.

Question 4: Are there boundaries, in your mind, between the part of your life that involves spirituality and the parts that don't? Can you talk about some of the ways that spirituality plays a role in contexts that aren't obviously spiritual?

Once, in a very-high-stakes game I took a shot at, I noticed the player next to me take a Waite/Smith Tarot deck out of his belt pouch, cut a card (the seven of cups), and place it behind his stack of chips. I was quietly horrified. I read Tarot from time to time, and I play lots of poker, but mixing them feels like a Bad Idea: it seems disrespectful both to the cards and to the Cards.

If I were do perform magickal workings to improve my poker game, they would focus on improving me as a player. I don't particularly believe in "the poker gods" to whom players often jokingly refer, but if I did, I rather think they would take a dim view of using magick to affect the outcome of the game or affect other players.

Process work is as much a spiritual practice to me as it is a modality of psychology; as such, I have absolutely no hesitation about using PW ideas and practices while playing or to work on my game away from the table. Process work is at root an awareness practice, and awareness is essential to good play.

There is a significant predatory element to poker, and I've often wondered whether shamanistic spirituality of hunter-gatherer would be appropriate for a poker pro to practice. An important role of shamans in pre- and peri-agricultural magico-religious practice is to facilitate the proper relationship between the hunter and the hunted, e.g., asking the deer spirit's permission to kill deer.

[elphie.livejournal.com]

Have we played together before, at the Oaks?

[abostick59.livejournal.com]

It's possible, but I don't recognize your userpic.

I mostly play in the 15-30 game there these days.

[elphie.livejournal.com]

I played the 15-30 and 30-60 a bunch towards the beginning of the year. Now I live in Mountain View so I rarely get up there.

My hair is longer than in the pic, I'm 6'+ tall woman, my name is Elena, I'm hard to miss.

[abostick59.livejournal.com]

Right. You must be the BBW hottie with the scarily super-solid playing style. I remember you now. Yes, we've played together. I'm the longhaired, bearded donk who can never adjust to people calling my preflop raises (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Board=msholdem&Number=6598968).

[elphie.livejournal.com]

*blush*

Hi, nice to remeet you!

Wow, you are into poker *and* spirituality, that automatically makes you a hottie in my book. I thought you were my kind of geek when I first saw you, but don't really tend to talk to folks much at the table.

It's strange because I started playing in 2004, and to me the games were always like they are now. I've never had my raises not be called by a whole mess of donks. :) If it doesn't happen I assume the game is bad and leave.

[abostick59.livejournal.com]

(IHNJ, IJLS "magico-religious practice")

[elphie.livejournal.com]

Story 4: I've taken to playing poker recently. After pretty much every game, I reflect on it and try to figure out what I can do to play better. I realized only recently that I never really think of doing any magical workings to improve my game. For some reason, in my head, poker seems to live outside of the space where spirituality applies. I'm not really sure why.

Being a professional poker player and a pagan I've thought about this a lot.

When I play poker I play with the assumption that the world of poker is a rationalistic universe, the distribution of the cards will follow the laws of probability, and I have no ability to know what cards are coming in the future. I do have hunches about what will be coming, and I always ignore them. I do use my intiution to figure out the meanings of my opponents actions though.

My opponents often have strong beliefs about luck, they look for a lucky seat, play their "rushes", play a hand because they have a feeling about it etc. And I can see why they do so, when they go on a hot run it has the apperance that their magical thinking and intution has crushed my logical, mathematical approach.

But I keep records, and I know that I win in the long-term, and since poker is a negative-sum game, my opponents must be losing in the long-term.

Seeing this play out has shifted my worldview towards a more rational analytical one. I used to believe that it was possible for ritual and magick to have effects on the outside world not explained by science, but I'm much more skeptical about this than I used to be. It seems more likely that people are over-applying the same pattern recognition systems that cause them to play poker poorly to the universe at large.

On the other hand I don't feel this diminishes the power of ritual and magick much. The power of these things for self-transformation and personal growth are profound, and I will continue to practice.

[surelars.livejournal.com]

1: No
2: No
3: No
4: There's no spiritual part of my life that I'm aware of.

[sonjaaa.livejournal.com]

Where are the chicken sacrifices??