bcholmes | (no subject)

(no subject)

I got into a long conversation about silverware while I was in Portugal last week. When you were growing up, did you learn the way to set your silverware on the plate to indicate that you were done or indicate that you were still eating?

Mirrored from Under the Beret.

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We were working class so "learning" this might be overstating the case, as much as we xonly ate with company that would simply ask if he we were done, and we had to clear our own table :) but I think putting our utensils parallel together was the way to indicate we were done, as opposed to have our utensils separate on the plate indicated that we were still eating.

I did, but I honestly couldn't tell you where I picked it up from. My paternal grandmother prided herself on being "lace-curtain Irish" so it might have been her. My parents wouldn't have cared.

OH I just had a sudden memory. My parents took us to a fancy restaurant, and when my sister looked over her shoulder at something a waiter swooped in from the other side and took away her half-finished food. My sister ran after him and took it back.

When she returned my father explained that it was because she had her silverware in the "I'm done" position.

So that must be where I learned it. Note that it is entirely in character for my parents to not teach us things and then be surprised when we didn't know them.

Yes, in the sense that my mom told me people did it and demonstrated. I think I saw diagrams in cookbooks, but I promptly forgot them. If you're asking if it's one of the things I learned by imitating my parents who were doing it routinely (or even on special occasions)? No.

Why were you in Portugal? Tell me about it!

Also, the way you set your silverware on your plate means something? What? Weird.

The two key signals that I learned were these:

Placement of silverware on plates

One of my breakfast companions stepped away from the table for a bit but left his cutlery in the first position. When the server came by to pick up dirty dishes, I didn't let them take the dish because the silverware was in the "I'm still going to finish this; I'm just taking a break" position. That lead to a whole conversation where it became clear that no one else at the table had ever learned these signals.

I think your reply is missing a line in the middle.

Interesting. I put an image in the middle. Is that not loading for you?

Huh. Nope. Not even the little x

Funky! I'm seeing this: https://blog.bcholmes.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/plates.jpg

(And, of course, forgot to answer that I was taught 'split apart' (typically on an angle) = pause and 'together' = done. (No idea why but I'd also tend to leave them together on an angle for done and not straight down the middle like in this pic but if I was clearing plates it's the together thing that matters less than where they are together on the plate).

Edited 2023-11-22 22:40 (UTC)

I have run in to a number of people who learned "fork and knife together, angled with handles at the 4 o'clock position."

That's super interesting 'cause I do not remember being told any place to put the 'together' utensils but I must have just picked up that they seem to be on an angle and so would have imitated that. Then they would more likely than not end up around 4 / 5 just because I'm right-handed so more likely to be on the right and also more likely for the handles to be toward me than not.

Huh. I did not know anything about handles at a certain clock position, but I do "top of utensils on plate if you're still eating" and "utensils set across the plate if you're done". The first so you don't get the table dirty, and you only put the utensils across the plate if you're done because why would you put the handles of the utensils in your food?

I think there is a way that some people put their silverware on a plate to indicate that they are done, but I don't remember what it is. Do they cross the utensils? Do they set them next to one another?

i know this so i must have learned it but i have no recollection of being taught it and it might be something that someone told me when i was already an adult.

I learned this as a kid, because I read my mother's advice/etiquette books for young people, and because the Childcraft Encyclopedia volume on "signs and signals" covered it as well. You put your utensils in a criss-cross (X) position if you set them down but are not done. You put them together at the "5-o-clock" position if you are finished, which is a signal for the waiter to take your plate away.

I always do the latter when I eat in a restaurant. It honestly annoys me a bit when wait staff still ask "are you finished with that?" or "may I take your plate?" but then again I know most people aren't trained in that kind of etiquette so it probably isn't entirely safe to assume.

Edited 2023-11-22 20:31 (UTC)

I did not.

This is something that i became aware existed i think because of TV. Although i never actually figured out exactly HOW to place my utensils, just that there was a way to place your utensils that meant you were done. Interestingly, i also remember learning something about placing your fork in a certain way meant you were displeased with the food (this one i think someone told me, rather than picking it up from TV).

I am pretty absolutely certain that i did not learn this from my family. Having gracious table manners wasn't something my people generally cared about (so long as you weren't, like, outright rude or piggish), altho' occasionally i recall someone being mocked because they held their fork in a strange way. Families are weird.

I did eventually learn gracious table manners, because one of my dearest friends in college came from relatively fancy people in Maryland, so she was like, "if you want to learn, i'll show you what i know." People still occasionally comment that i have really nice table manners, and honesty i just feel awkward about it — altho' at least it came in handy on the rare occasions i've had to sit at a table with fancy people during work dinners, as it gives me one less class thing to be anxious about.

Edited 2023-11-23 04:10 (UTC)

I learned this for restaurants, probably on study abroad? It may have come up in "etiquette dinner" for the Bonner scholars (need based scholarship where you do community service instead of work study) or something as well. I only do it in restaurants (and other dining out kinds of things like weddings), I'm not sure I've ever done it at somebody's home since I'd typically expect to clear my own plate or help clear other peoples'.

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