bcholmes: I’m covered in bees! (bee sea)
BC Holmes ([personal profile] bcholmes) wrote2008-11-06 04:09 pm

Racism isn't just "a card" some people "play"

Blaming people of color for Prop. 8 passing in California is racist. So cut it the fuck out. Ditto for veiling your racism with "this is because of turnout for Obama" or "you know how conservative those immigrants can be."

[livejournal.com profile] sparkymonster states one of those things that I wanted to believe was obvious, but which apparently is not.

Edit: Here's another good response to the "let's blame the brown people" phenomenon.

Edit the second: Here's a statistical analysis of a white election.

Edit the third: Daily Kos has a good analysis, too!

ext_28663: (Default)

[identity profile] bcholmes.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 11:47 am (UTC)(link)
i think that the call of "racism" is a common technique of shutting down or derailing useful discussions about race.

For the record, I disagree with that point, strongly. I think that's a reaction that white people need to get over and get over quickly.

[identity profile] cigfran-lwyd.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 12:40 pm (UTC)(link)
ok, let's discuss.

clearly, racism is fully and widely operative. it is even possible that most things that are considered racist (by those with the cultural authority to make the claim) in fact are. the comments noted by the OP and yourself may indeed be racist.

but they are also more than that. and the term "racism" has a tendency, i feel, to collapse all discussion about the things in question into a big black box that is all about itself, and not at all about the things that lead into and out of it. it vastly oversimplifies perspectives, conclusions and consequences.

not to say that it is not often exactly what-it-is. and a continuing awareness of it ought to lead to observations that are less inflammatory and more measured. offering myself as an example, i am constantly self-editing in this regard, being at least as prone to heedless generalizations as anyone else, yet sufficiently well-socialized to have working re-think loops.

i have already agreed that it is inappropriate to "blame" non-whites for the passing of Prop 8. but the accusing finger of racism - which in some instances of that blaming may even be merited - raises a prohibition rather than a question.

thank you for the link pam spaulding's comments on the subject. as usual, i think she puts it all pretty near perfectly.
ext_28663: (Default)

[identity profile] bcholmes.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 01:51 pm (UTC)(link)
*nod*

I think I have a lot of things I'm inclined to say, here (and am struggling a bit with putting them all into words).

One of the points that leaps immediately to mind is a post that a friend made on Usenet regarding men and feminism. At the point my friend had made her comments, some guys (Sensitive New-Age Guys, to boot) were stating that feminist anger about sexism was the key thing that was turning them off of feminism.

My friend argued (and I agree with her) that withholding their support of feminism until feminism acts according to their terms was a form of power. That making conversations about sexism comfortable for men was, while in some sense productive, essentially an example of how the master's tools are, once again, going to help improve the master's house.

And I think I see this conversation about racism much the same way. I don't claim to have done anywhere near enough anti-racist education, but I have observed how every conversation about racism I've had with white folks has had to spend an inordinate amount of time making white folks comfortable with even the implication that there might be less-than-perfect behaviours around race.

I see many, many people have knee-jerk reactions to words like 'privilege' or 'racism' and then use that as an excuse to not take part in the conversation -- I think that opting-out behaviour exemplifies a form of white privilege that's pretty icky. And pretty invisible to the people who are wielding it.

[identity profile] cigfran-lwyd.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 03:17 pm (UTC)(link)
all good points.

i'm well familiar with the "you're an angry person so i'm not going to listen to you" thing. it's infantalizing, and further infuriating, which is often the point. it is certainly a standard strategy used against trans people, who are often pretty damned twitchy to begin with, and easy to trigger.

[identity profile] sparkymonster.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 12:43 pm (UTC)(link)
How Not To Be Insane When Accused Of Racism (A Guide For White People)
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/12/02/how-not-to-be-insane-when-accused-of-racism/
ext_28663: (Default)

[identity profile] bcholmes.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 12:53 pm (UTC)(link)
My google-fu was failing me mere moments ago when I was trying to find that article!

[identity profile] sparkymonster.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 12:54 pm (UTC)(link)
That's why I have.....http://delicious.com/starkeymonster/forcluelesswhitepeople

[identity profile] cigfran-lwyd.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 01:06 pm (UTC)(link)
followed the link. found the debunkingwhite group. read the faq.

now have a swirl in my head about the uneasy overlaps between anti-racist, feminist, queer-positive and trans-positive interests.

coalition is always hard. perhaps it should be. work = consciousness.

[identity profile] cigfran-lwyd.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 12:59 pm (UTC)(link)
it's interesting, the shades that the term "racism" apparently takes on in different contexts. as ampersand describes it, the charge may amount to little more than "you've just made an inaccurate and potentially offensive generalization about people of color." which is quite a bit less loaded than i think many understand it.

[identity profile] sparkymonster.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 01:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Only being able to accept that you did something racist, when someone couches it in the nicest terms possible, is a huge example of white privilege. Also, digging up stats, election maps, and giving a long list of examples explaining why accusing blacks of passing Prop. 8 is showing how people are making an inaccurate and offensive generalization based on race. You know, a racist generalization.

Also, [livejournal.com profile] witchqueen went looking for examples of times when someone's use of a nice polite tone was successful here (http://zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com/429727.html).

"In livejournal mediafandom, no one has observed tone successfully used as a mitigating factor, or they have not so far come forward to admit this."

" First of all, not everyone is going to follow the rational, dispassionate argument, but some people are really good at the emotional logic. When they see that actual people are actually saddened or enraged by something, that’s when the issue achieves importance to them. (Which isn’t to say call such people irrational or unable to follow logic, but that they have either a communication style or a value system where emotion rates higher when they’re deciding what to care about in human relations today.)

Second, just because a person of color opens her mouth about race or racism, that does not mean she’s volunteering to teach for a day. Sometimes, screaming at livejournal is what one does instead of cutting a bitch. Sometimes, she’s calling on other people to go attack some Big Fandom Fail. Sometimes, she’s pulling a fandomwank and inviting people to watch the big mess which is going to occur in 5-4-3-2-1. Whatever it is, it doesn’t have to be class sesson 237 of Racism 101.

Last but not least, people losing their shit perform a valuable service for those of us who are about to pull out the chalkboards and learn ignorant folks. They expand the margins, so that a calm and dispassionate tone looks like a regular person talking, at least in contrast to the crazy, scary person over there."

[identity profile] cigfran-lwyd.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 01:19 pm (UTC)(link)
ok.

but my point was that ampersand's post appeared to soften the idea of the accusation of racism, as if being told that one has made a racist utterance is of little more consequence than being told that one has farted in a closed room. which is not, i think, how the term is usually received, or meant.

for the record, i am all for people losing their shit. a good rant is often far more instructive and vital than an essay.

[identity profile] cigfran-lwyd.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 02:00 pm (UTC)(link)
another thought (sorry if i'm nattering... this is all too interesting and useful):

my perception of the expected reaction to the statement "what you've just said is racist" is a cessation of discussion of whatever the original question is, and a dismissal of whatever perspectives were being offered as either out of bounds or beneath consideration.

if i take ampersand's advice to heart, then the proper reaction is "oh? ok... now, back to my problem with this..."

which sort of works both ways. either "racism" is a comma, or it is a full stop, and that depends on both parties to the conversation.
ext_28663: (Default)

[identity profile] bcholmes.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 02:06 pm (UTC)(link)
if i take ampersand's advice to heart, then the proper reaction is "oh? ok... now, back to my problem with this..."

Why not, "I truly apologize, but thank you for calling me out on that. Would you be willing to say more?"

[identity profile] cigfran-lwyd.livejournal.com 2008-11-07 03:12 pm (UTC)(link)
that could also work.